WCW:  Addicted to Love?, and Vegan for a Day, March 02, 2016 Gratiana Lovelace (Post #880)

Various tweets between “Berlin Station” costars  Richard Armitage  and Michelle Forbes have alluded to a developing sympathy toward each other—none more so than Michelle Forbes’ sweetly gushing tweet below:



And since Michelle Forbes (below) is an animal rights activist and avowed vegan,

it seems that she might be having an impact upon what Richard Armitage is consuming (below) these days:




A Wiki definition of Veganism is:

Veganism is both the practice of abstaining from the use of animal products, particularly in diet, and the philosophy that rejects the commodity status of animals. [9] A follower of veganism is known as a vegan.”


And the Vegan page on Wiki goes on further to remark positively about a Vegan diet:

Vegan diets tend to be higher in dietary fibre, magnesium, folic acid, vitamin C, vitamin E, iron and phytochemicals, and lower in calories, saturated fat, cholesterol, long-chain omega-3 fatty acids, vitamin D, calcium, zinc and vitamin B12.[n 2] Well-planned vegan diets can reduce the risk of some types of chronic disease, including heart disease,[19] and are regarded as appropriate for all stages of the life-cycle by the American Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics, the Australian National Health and Medical Research Council, and Dietitians of Canada.[20] Because uncontaminated plant foods do not provide vitamin B12 (which is produced by microorganisms such as bacteria), researchers agree that vegans should eat B12-fortified foods or take a supplement.[n 3]”


But Ethical Veganism takes the dietary Vegan a step further by recognizing and valuing the rights of all living things to have intrinsic worth and should be allowed to follow the natural course of their lives without interdiction by owners exploiting the animals by products—for food, household products like lotion and soap, and leather for shoes and purses, and such.

Here is a Wiki definition of the term Ethical Veganism:

Ethical veganism is based on opposition to speciesism, the assignment of value to individuals on the basis of species membership alone. Divisions within animal rights theory include rights-based (deontological) and utilitarian (consequentialist) approaches, as well as protectionism, which pursues improved conditions for animals, and abolitionism, which seeks to end human ownership of non-humans.”


Though for now, Richard Armitage seems to want to hang on to at least one animal by product (RCA shoes tweet, below):



So if Richard Armitage is trying out Michelle Forbes’ Vegan dietary preferences to please her—dear man—might he becoming “Addicted to Love”?


In my limited breadth but vast depth of experience, love is all consuming and quite a rush—even 28 years on.  Ha!     So enjoy, you two!


And thinking about Richard and Michelle as a potential romantic couple makes me reminisce about my hubby and I early in our courtship.  On our very first date—lunch at a campus cafeteria—my future hubby was gallant as we said good bye at the elevator (similar to Richard in Vicar of Dibley, below):


And I remember that Bill told me later that I he thought that I “ate like a bird”—meaning that I ate small portions.  With my 6 ft 4 in tall hubby, small is a relative term.  But I was probably so nervous about doing the right thing on our first date that I didn’t eat much.  So my future hubby probably got a false sense of me with that.  Though my hubby still eats the lion’s share of any meal we prepare—and leftovers are few.  Ha!


But getting back to Michelle Forbes Vegan diet and animal rights advocacy, I can certainly agree with wanting to treat animals humanely and respectfully.  And I definitely don’t want to think of the food that I eat as having once had a face—when I do, it does puts me off eating meat.

Though with my digestive issues since my gallbladder was removed in 1999—meaning by body doesn’t process dense meats well–I mostly eat chicken and eggs (80%?), with some ham, fish, and beef in descending order on occasion, anyway.  And I have been counting carbs and trying to eat more fruits and vegetables and fiber—which are all featured in a Vegan diet.

And I already don’t eat lamb or veal since these animals are not allowed to live to adult hood.  But then the eggs I eat each morning probably come from a farming practice that keeps the hen layers in cages all their lives—which isn’t good either.  So there is a contradiction there and a rationalization on my part—I eat some animal foods because I’m not aware of their farm to table growing practices that might make me feel uncomfortable.

And if I were more informed? What choice would I make about whether I would consume animal foods, etc?  I don’t know.  But there are lots of Vegan dietary program books with recipes to help a person find out how to eat a balanced diet as a vegan.

As well as in trying to be an Ethical Vegan, there would by product labels to be read regarding other animal by products—such as lotions and shampoos and such containing lanolin, stearic acid, etc.  Could I remove all animal by products  from our home?  That would take a lot of research—though my purse with a genuine leather tag hanging from it is the easiest to discern.

But could I drastically change the way I eat to vegan and exclude all meat, eggs, butter, milk, etc. from my daily diet?  Could I do it for even just one day?  I don’t know.

But today, Wednesday, March 2nd, I’m going to try not to eat any animal products—no milk (a real hardship for me), eggs, cheese, etc.  Baby steps.  And throughout the day, I’ll let you know how well I succeed at eating Vegan for each meal.

So if anyone out there is a Vegan (dietary or ethical)–or trying to be–please share your thoughts in a comment below.


Grati’s attempt at a Vegan Diet today

Breakfast, 7:09am:   1 wheat toast, 2 teasp honey, spiced cider.  Though honey is made from insects, I was suspect of jam thickening agent (though hubby said most are made from plant pectin now).

What I didn’t eat:  I eschewed my regular meal of 1 egg, cheese, milk, hot cocoa, and a sweet roll (that is probably made with butter and eggs), & sausage.

Result:  A good Vegan start!  And  I’m guessing that I will be mighty hungry by my 1:00pm lunch. So I’m taking two small apples with me to work to tide me over as a mid morning snack–I ate one apple at 11am.

Lunch, 1:00pm:  Ate out at a chain restaurant my hubby and I usually frequent.  I chose a salad with French dressing–asked for no eggs when I explained my Vegan quest today.  But the salad still had shredded cheese that I had to scrape off.  But that worked!  Then the creamy potato soup–though I asked for it without the bacon–seemed to have melted cheese with in it.  That failed.  But I was doomed when I mechanically ate the dinner roll with butter before my salad arrived.  Curses!  But it tasted so good.  *hangs head in shame*  The dinner roll was probably made with egg, and the butter is dairy.  Iced Tea to drink with saltine crackers on the side.  Snap!

What I didn’t eat:  I avoided my usual ham and cheese omelet with toast and jelly.  Also no milk.

Result:  So I’m counting lunch as only 1/2 successful for going vegan–with the salad, saltines, and iced tea as being Vegan acceptable; and the soup and dinner roll not being Vegan acceptable.  I’m going to more hopeful for dinner later, since I will eat at home and can “control” the content of my meal more easily.

Dinner, 7:02pm:  I had somewhat planned my dinner at home better than being surprised by non-Vegan meal attributes, like I was at lunchtime.  I had one slice of whole wheat bread with peanut butter and grape preserves (making a 1/2 sandwich), 10 Keebler club crackers,1/2 a can of a small Campbell’s vegetarian vegetable soup (not eating the alphabet noodles that were enriched with egg white as noted on the label), hot tea and water, and about six Girl Scout Cookie Thin Mints for dessert.

What I didn’t eat:  Neither my other half of a Turkey sub sandwich from the previous Tuesday night’s dinner, nor the leftover chicken and mushrooms from our Monday night dinner meal, nor milk.

Result:  Pretty successful  (95%?) at keeping Vegan.  Though I had belatedly realized that the soup contained non-vegan enriched noodles (that I did not eat)–when sites I have looked at tend to state that non-enriched pasta is usually Vegan–I think I did pretty well in following Vegan at Dinner time.  I determinedly checked the food labels and googled food attributes that I wasn’t certain about.  I like vegetables, but the overall tomatoey flavor of the soup was a little strong for me.  But I didn’t have other options beyond having another salad and munching my celery–salad usually being what I eat for lunch.


Overall Impressions about my attempt to eat Vegan today:
I think I made a good effort at trying to eat a Vegan diet today.  I wasn’t perfect–as my dinner roll and soup debacle at lunch attest to.  Ha!  But right now after dinner, I feel full and satisfied.

And  generally, I tend to eat less as the day wears on–like a pyramid–with breakfast usually being my biggest meal and dinner being my smallest meal.  Though today, breakfast was my smallest meal–so adding a cantaloupe quarter would add  fruit and fiber to that meal.  Actually one Summer, I had a voracious appetite for cantaloupe and had slices of them every morning with lightly buttered toast for about two months.

There are other considerations that enter into adopting a drastically different dietary path–with regard to overall health concerns and pre-existing health conditions.  Most notably for me is not getting sufficient calcium due to not drinking milk.  When I started on my carb counting diet last August, I then halved my 1% milk consumption to 8 oz at breakfast, lunch, and dinner–when I had been drinking 16 ounces at each meal.

And I or anyone contemplating strictly following a Vegan diet–would want to consult their doctor about what steps they need to take to insure that there are no dietary deficiencies that develop, nor food and drug interactions because you are eating different foods.  I am already taking a calcium supplement. And several Vegan sites I looked at mentioned taking B12 supplements.   And if you are really serious about shifting to a Vegan diet, I found a Vegan Starter Kit (VSK) sigh\n up offer on the PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) website.

And though I wasn’t a 100% successful Vegan today, I’m glad that I tried it.  And a special thank you to Michelle Forbes’ advocacy for humane animal advocacy and promoting a Vegan diet.  So below is a video link that she shared that was really cute and endearing about animal advocacy:


About Gratiana Lovelace

Gratiana Lovelace is my nom de plume for my creative writing and blogging. I write romantic stories in different sub genres. The stories just tumble out of me. My resurgence in creative writing occurred when I viewed the BBC miniseries of Elizabeth Gaskell's novel North & South in February 2010. The exquisitely talented British actor portraying the male lead John Thornton in North & South--Richard Crispin Armitage--became my unofficial muse. I have written over 50 script stories about love--some are fan fiction, but most are original stories--that I am just beginning to share with others on private writer sites, and here on my blog. And as you know, my blog here is also relatively new--since August 2011. But, I'm having fun and I hope you enjoy reading my blog essays and my stories. Cheers! Grati ;-> upd 12/18/11
This entry was posted in Berlin Station mini series, Love and Relationships, Michelle Forbes, My Life, Richard Armitage, Romance, Social Justice, Society, Something About Love, Vegan, Video and tagged , , , , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

28 Responses to WCW:  Addicted to Love?, and Vegan for a Day, March 02, 2016 Gratiana Lovelace (Post #880)

  1. Latest tweet says he is on burgers again :D

    Liked by 1 person

  2. March 02, 2016–Richard Armitage promotes respect by valuing his friend and costars views:


  3. Irish Witch says:

    I have been a vegetarian for many years and have done so simply out of my love for animals, no other reason. I tried going Vegan but frankly having to read every single ingredient on a label in the grocery store becomes crazy ( if you”re going to do it do it right). I had nothing to eat ( not even jello) that I liked ( basically I was starving ) and so I went back to my vegetarian diet. Also to follow through on this if you are really into it you should also give up any other animal products to “wear” such as belts, shoes, etc. made of leather and/or fur – or any product that does animal testing – you get into a whole different world.. yep when you love the furchildren you give up a lot for them, but they are worth it, they give us back so much more.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Hi Irish Witch,
      Thanks for sharing your experiences and views about being a Vegetarian! And as you pointed out–and I stated above–being a Vegan or Vegetarian, is more than just the foods that you eat. Any product–be it clothes, bags, cosmetics, etc.–that has a connection to an animal by product or using animals for testing purposes (cosmetics), would be excluded from use/consumption. That would be the “Ethical Veg” side of things.
      And I have been a dog lover and the human family for several doggies over the course of my life. Cherishing them and seeing to their comfort is ever my goal–and why I make an extra round trip home every weekday lunch time to see to their care and happiness.
      Thanks for visiting and commenting! Cheers! Grati ;->


  4. katie70 says:

    Thanks for your post. If Mr. A is thinking of becoming a vegan that is up to him. My story is that I eat about 3/4ths or more vegan and a little meat, not everyday, no more dairy as I have issues with it, running noise, sneezeing(I do plan on having testing to see if I have an allergy to it). Almost three years ago knowing that I needed to do something different for my health I was reading on Yahoo about Mark Bittmans new book V before 6. Mark Bittman has been on PBS and New York Times food writer, his story is worth reading about. It is about eating vegan until your evening meal, this made sense to me and I was almost doing this already, much easier to stay on than to get rid of everything at one time. It was easy to swap out dairy for non dairy like almond milk for cow milk, I never liked cow milk and afterwards knew that it was what made my tougue have a mucky taste. The more I ate vegan food the more I liked what I ate. Since I stared my new lifestyle I have lost over 50 pounds and feel great. I also workout 5 days a week and can’t wait till it warms up to start walking again, I love the way I feel. I have never really told my husband what I was up to when I started but he notice and is proud of what I have done and tells everyone. He will also eat what I make tofu, beans the lot, my boys eat it but don’t always like it. Beans are great food powerhouses and veggie/vegan or not everyone should eat more, great protein and fiber. I also eat every little process foods, this is one that everyone could do meat eater or not. I drink water ( lots of it) tea (black and green) and black coffee, juice once in a great while. I have not given up on baked goodies I swap out white flour for WW pastry flour and use brown rice syrup, maple syrup or vegan sugar. Reading labels is something I have always done, which has to be done now. I would like to buy organic more but I have a budget to follow. I am not on a diet, this is my life, I would rather eat this way than being on a ton of pills, that is what Mark Bittman says in his book. I believe that everyone has a choice and should make it for themselves as what I am doing will not work for everyone. I don’t think at this time I will become a full vegan as I do still like fish, but I feel so much better how I eat. My family still does eat meat and dairy but will swap out a couple meals each week.


  5. March 03, 2016– Day 2 of trying to be vegan

    Brkfst: wheat toast, honey, orange juice, & hot tea, then spiced cider at the office

    Lunch: Gardein spicy meatless chicken patty, tater tots, squash and zuchini veggies, Full Circle almond milk, veggie choc brownie bar, grape cranberry juice

    Dinner: Boca veggie burger, bun, tater tots, squash and zuchini and carros veggies, Full Circle almond milk, sugar cookie and hershey’s kisses (which were on a list of surprising foods that were veggie, ha!).


  6. March 03, 2016–Servetus’ take on Michelle Forbes Vegan diet advocacy and such:


    P.S. From Grati: As I urged in my post above, but might have gotten lost if you weren’t reading closely, it is important to check with one’s doctor before undergoing drastic nutrition changes or starting exercise plans. In my case, my Diabetic Educator nutritionist–who is a registered dietician I see every six months to assess and tweak my diet plan (and I see my internist the alternating six months)–had previously suggested to me that I try to cut beef from my diet (I don’t digest it well anyway) and increase my legumes and canola oil intake as a complement to the diabetic medicine that I take.

    After seeing my nutritionist for almost 2 years, I appreciate the gradual and educating way she has guided me to reflect upon my nutrition choices and see where I can make improvements–that included some carb counting on my part to help me be more cognizant of what I am consuming. The result is nearly a forty pound weightloss that has stayed off me, improved scores on medical tests like the A1C typically done for diabetics, and overall medical test scores improvements. It has worked for me and everyone has to find their own path for improving their quality of life.

    And apart from my diet, my physical therapist is helping me to expand my exercising into some strength conditioning with weight training. I may not be Rocky, but I’m determined to improve my mobility and endurance through range of motion and strength exercises. Wall pushups are my latest fave–feel the burn. Because although, my physical therapy up to now has focused on my back, hips, and legs, my upper body also needs greater strength–especially in preparation for having to rely more on my arms with pushing up from a sitting position and using crutches after I have my knee replacement surgery. And being a lady who owns my own crutches, believe me, they are quite the aerobic workout. Ha!


  7. March 03, 2016–After having some Gardein and Boca brands mock meats today for lunch and dinner, I feel less hungry. I also tried the Almond milk substitute by Full Circle and find it quite tasty. It’s also neat to have people at work share their vegetarian/vegan stories with me. Either they are on the vegetarian/vegan diet or people in their family are–so when visiting that family, they eat what they eat.

    I got some good tips today and was “saved” by finding a vegan brownie bar. Ha! Though I’m more of a fruit addict, my previously daily dose of chocolate is my only source of caffeine.

    I don’t think that I could sustain a vegan dietary lifestyle just yet. So, I’m shifting over to the less restrictive vegetarian diet–can’t wait to have my morning egg again. Ha! But of course, I am informing my Diabetic Educator (a registered dietician) about these changes, which are really tweaks to what I had already been doing. I find it really helps me to structure my eating–and to make sure that I am eating in a balanced way–by having food intake guidelines to follow. So I’m eating more vegetables, eating more fruit than fruit juices, and really trying to carefully monitor how many sugars and how much sodium I consume.


  8. Servetus says:

    I am glad you have found a diet that works for you, in consultation with a professional!

    I’ll try to be brief: in my considered opinion, choosing to eat animals or raise animals to be eaten (or for the use of their milk or eggs) does not automatically mean that one is either unethical or inhumane. If you don’t want to eat meat because you think of the animal you are eating when you do so, that is your right, of course, although there are also people who eat animals they have known and think of those animals with gratefulness / pleasure. My nieces and their schoolmates raise animals in 4-H that the family butchers and eats; they are not unethical or inhumane to their animals and they have a much better idea than actors, I suspect, of the personal and ethical questions involved in raising and dealing with livestock. In my experience no meat eaters (including me) would ever cram meat down anyone’s throat who didn’t want to eat it.

    One can lead a healthy vegan lifestyle; in my experience of vegans, most are underinformed about nutrition, just as most Americans in general are underinformed about nutrition. I know meat-eaters who eat poorly and vegans who eat poorly. While the USDA no longer considers dairy necessary to a healthy diet, I have never read a study that indicated that consumption of dairy in the amount recommended by the USDA (two servings daily) contributed significantly to incidence of heart disease in otherwise healthy people. Those of us who have been watching nutritional recommendations since the 1970s should know what the demonization of fat did to the American diet and the general level of health here.

    I can’t underline enough that all food choices have health, environmental, and political consequences — including vegan foods. Soy in large amounts raises estrogen levels and some doctors now recommend that women at risk for breast cancer avoid soy entirely; production of almonds in California and increased demand for almond-based products is thought to be one of the causes of the current drought; western consumption of quinoa (thought to be “the perfect grain”) has priced its original producers out of the market for their culture’s traditional food, which until recently could only be grown in the Andes.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Hi Servetus, Thanks for your comment. Everyone has to make their own informed choice–investigating it for themselves. And I would be interested to read the sources for the claims you make about soy increasing rates of breast cancer.

      The Mayo Clinic website seemed to have the opposite opinion to what you referred to–in a response to a layperson’s question asking if soy increases the risk of breast cancer (http://www.mayoclinic.org/soy-breast-cancer-risk/expert-answers/faq-20120377). A Registered Dietician named Katherine Zeratsky goes on to refute the mistaken impression about there being a link between soy causing breast cancer:
      “High levels of estrogen have been linked to an increased risk of breast cancer. However, food sources of soy don’t contain high enough levels of isoflavones to increase the risk of breast cancer.”

      And I found an NIH (National Institutes of Health) abstract for a 2013 research article (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23919747) stateing that “Epidemiological and migratory evidence suggests that dietary soy consumption can lower the risk for breast cancer. … Although the specific quantities and constituents responsible for the observed anti-cancer effects have not been elucidated, it appears that soy isoflavones do not function as an estrogen, but rather exhibit anti-estrogenic properties. However, their metabolism differs between humans and animals and therefore the outcomes of animal studies may not be applicable to humans. The majority of breast cancer cases are hormone-receptor-positive; therefore, soy isoflavones should be considered a potential anti-cancer therapeutic agent and warrant further investigation.”

      But I’m sure one can find scientific sources that go back and forth on the issue of soy and its health benefits. So people need to consult with their doctor and do the research–as I did. My Registered Dietician said my decision to explore a vegetarian path for my diet was fine–given that I am a non-insulin dependent diabetic (I take pills). She just urged me to eat varied foods to consume a balance of nutrients, and to start taking a multivitamin. I needed to increase my vitamin intake any way. Ha!

      And of course, my blog post here is about my journey. And I believe that it is important not to be inflamatory in either direction on this or any other issue–because it “muddies the water” as the saying goes. Knee jerk reactions of defensiveness that then go on the attack about another person’s/actor’s/blogger’s choices are not helpful. And in my view, serve to undermine that criticizing individual’s argument. I always wonder, why do they get so upset? What is causing their extremely negative reaction? Being exposed to stories about animals treated inhumanely certainly makes me recoil in abhorrence, and I have long bemoaned that what I used to eat, had a face once. So for me, trying a vegetarian diet (keeping my eggs and dairy, snap!) is a nice compromise for me–and healthy for me.

      Oh and by the way, I come from a farm and dairy family–via my grandparents. Though these businesses are no longer in our family (the crops farm was sold 30 yrs ago when my grandmother died), we are quite proud of them as a part of our heritage. And I also had a college friend whose family had a modern dairy farm, and he talked about all of the record keeping on the health of their animals that reflected their care. So with all of the stringent regulations about food production, from a farm standpoint—I like to think that the majority of dairy or other animal farms treat their animals humanely.

      But if someone comes across examples of animals not being treated humanely–as PETA and similar advocacy organizations have shared such things–and they choose to bemoan that inhumane treatment, I can’t fault them for stating their convictions. Nor am I worried that everyone will immediately assume what they read in a blog or tweet is the truth. I think people have more sense than that. Of course, there are always examples of insensible people, but they hopefully do not comprise the majority of society.

      Thanks for visiting and commenting! Cheers! Grati ;->


      • Servetus says:

        I think the jury is (still) out on soy, although I understand that it’s been shown definitely to raise phytoestrogen and the question is how significant that is; I wrote above that some doctors tell women to stay away from it, not that there is a definitive result. If I were to guess, my intuition would be that the problem isn’t soy in itself, but rather excessive amounts of it or getting one’s entire protein supply from it.

        I am not opposed to PETA, and in fact, I wrote on this extensively about the time that the Hobbit staff were accused of cruelty to their animals. Why I think PETA and organizations like at are important was discussed in that post, which I linked in my post on why Michelle Forbes’ tweets were problematic. Also, I don’t bemoan people pointing out actual incidences of animal cruelty; I do absolutely oppose the suggestion that animal cruelty is the standard in the dairy industry, which is what Michelle Forbes said in a provocative tweet attached to a picture of a dying cow.

        And I saw plenty of evidence that suggested that people assumed what they saw in the Twitter that we are talking about was true. Including people immediately saying they’d try out veganism because she was correct about what she was saying. That is their right, of course; it is also my right to point out that the fact that any celebrity endorses something is not a good reason for doing it, unless it is an area of their own professional expertise. I have seen no evidence that Michelle Forbes is a dietitian.

        Liked by 1 person

        • People sometimes find the impetus to do something new in their lives in what they see others doing all the time–people they know, people they don’t know but are told about by others–or in articles they read, social media, etc. Nothing new there. I took up quilting a few years ago because of some church friends–and I enjoyed it and the shared friendship for a while, until scheduling quilting sew fests moved to work days when I had a time conflict.

          But to aver that just because someone is an actor makes their choices statements irrelevant and that people should not take interest in what they have to say seems extreme to me. Just as you state that Michelle Forbes is not a dietician, neither are you or I a dietician. Yet each of the three of us–Michelle, Servetus, and I/Grati–approach the issue of food, diet, and choices as it works best for us. No need to demonize anyone–not the dairy farmer and not the actress.


          • Servetus says:

            Diet it is a little more important as a choice than quilting, at least in my life. Women in particular unfortunately make horrible lifestyle choices — especially on diet — on the basis of things actors say. Why do so many women have such horrible body images in the US? An important answer to that question lies in the statements of people who work in the industry in which Michelle Forbes works, because young women see people like her as a role model for all kinds of things, including and especially diet. It’s precisely because some people think what an actor has to about diet is relevant that I’m concerned about this.I’m not demonizing Michelle Forbes or her way of life, I’m criticizing her opinions. I didn’t say they were irrelevant, I said they are uninformed. She’s the one who tweeted a picture of a dead cow and called it typical of the dairy industry. That is not irrelevant — but it is uninformed.

            There are plenty of things about the lives of women who do what she does that I frankly find at least reprehensible and potentially unethical, not even chief among them their statements about diet, which young women listen to. I shut my mouth about them, however, because I don’t assume I know everything about the life an actor leads and why she does what she does. I assume there are pressures brought to bear on her that I am not aware of, and that influence her behaviors. Unfortunately she doesn’t give that same willingness to live and let live to dairy farmers.


          • You claim that “Women in particular unfortunately make horrible lifestyle choices — especially on diet — on the basis of things actors say.” Yet, one’s total environment of life experiences, friends, family, colleagues, medical professionals, news, research, etc., can contribute to why someone makes a choice in their lives–not merely one thing determines that choice, though there could be a tipping point. And a personal choice is just that. No one other than the person concerned has to agree or disagree with it.

            Michelle Forbes and other actors express their opinions–as we all do from time to time. It’s her right, it’s our right. Personally, I don’t find Michelle Forbes “showing” a picture of still living but discarded milk cows with their feet tied together and thrown into heap in a cargo crate headed to the slaughter reprehensible. I believe that the inhumane situation that the discarded living cows are in on their way to slaughter house is reprehensible.

            But as with most civil discourse, you and I will have to agree to disagree about this.


          • Servetus says:

            We can disagree about opinions, but it is a fact that this is not standard for the dairy industry. You can decide to agree with her or disagree with her but the fact is not in question. I won’t agree to disagree with a liar.


          • As I stated previously, with the regulations on the food production industry in the U.S.–such as dairy cows–one hopes that everything is run humanely for the animals most of the time.

            However, when anyone–in this case actor Michelle Forbes–points out an example or examples where animals are treated inhumanely, that doesn’t make them or her a liar.


          • Servetus says:

            She didn’t say, “this is one example of the dairy industry,” which is controversial if you show a picture without context, but I could let pass. She said this was the standard for how the dairy industry operates. That is a lie.


          • You are making a claim about something Michelle Forbes is purported to have said. Where is the evidence that she said this? Please provide the URL for tweet or article quote?


          • Servetus says:

            OK, the link below is what I was thinking of. I guess she said it was an example. however, she clearly means it as synecdoche. I’m done with this conversation, because for me she is very clearly a liar, and liars are at the heart of the problem with our political conversations today — whether they come from left or right. I’m tremendously sorry that you choose to sympathize with this kind of thing. https://twitter.com/olgavegana/status/693116951535685633


          • Ah! I was waiting for your ad hominem attacks of Michelle Forbes would get redirected at me.

            You make a claim that I “sympathize” with something–liars?–as an attempt to denigrate my thoughts, purely because they differ from yours. Shame on you!


          • Servetus says:

            Shame me if you like, but she is not telling the truth, and you sympathize with it. Neither of those statements is a personal attack. They are both true. The dairy industry is not characterized by people who harm cows in gruesome ways, and you sympathize with her.


          • You don’t know what I believe, but you are characterizing my supposed belives as “sympathizing” with someone you claim is “not telling the truth”.

            Yet you agree that Michelle Forbes was not making a blanket statement, but instead, providing an example.

            So if we agree on that basic fact–that Michelle Forbes was giving an “example”, and not saying that the dairy industry as a whole is inhumane to animals–then why are you attacking me?


  9. Servetus says:

    I won’t comment here any more and I would ask the same favor of you.


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